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Welcome! Locked Topic 0 Todd Daniel Welcome to the Credentialing Discussion forum. This is where volunteers for NOMMA and NEF may discuss topics related to shop accreditation and individual certification.
by Todd Daniel
Tuesday, September 15, 2015
Meeting Minutes - July 9, 2016 0 Todd Daniel Here are the notes Amos and I took on Saturday, Also attached is survey preview:   Meeting at Shrock Fabrication Rob Anderson, Dave Busarello, Amos Glick, Adam "Leo" Leofsky.   NISD created 1 huge program that fit everything and it failed miserably. By breaking it apart they had better success.     We start with basic, then add additional for higher levels.   In Basic:   OSHA/Shop Safety-Done, Dave Busarello Welding Certification, AWS, Started, Rob Anderson Railings, Codes (Tony Leto?) Finishing, Done Amos and Leo Business-operations, blue-prints, takeoffs, accounting, insurance and legal, (Joe Romeo? Todd Daniel) Field Work/Install       Additional Modules:      Forging or ABANA Gates and Operators 50% Idea, 50% NOMMA Stairs Light Structural per AISC- Either AISC Certification or our own Light structural. Glass-Cable Rail systems. Machining-lathe-milling Finishing advanced (Powder, paint, patinas, polishing, duplexing) Non-Ferrous (Stainless Aluminum and Bronze, with an introduction to Exotic metals i.e. Titanium, Monel, Nickel silver) Fork-lift certification   Continuing Education: NEF Events, Supplier Demos (Hilti Install Class)   Resource for Accredited members: a library of course information, tools, and documents.   AFA has a proctor that will be able to proctor our exam. Suggestion: Have accreditation events at chapter meetings. Proctoring can be done by volunteers.   Poll from members on which additional modules are relevant, Leo will send out.     Thanks, Adam (Leo) Leofsky, Executive Assistant to Amos Glick   Compass Ironworks (717) 442-4500 1406 W. Kings Hwy Gap, PA 17527 Member ABANA,AIA,ASID,ASLA,NOMMA,PABA,USGBC  http://ironworkclassics.com/
by Todd Daniel
Friday, August 12, 2016
Code Module Outline from Tony Leto 0 Todd Daniel Here is what I feel would be required: 1.       Code Bodies and Standards a.       International Code Council (ICC)                                                                i.      International Residential Code (IRC)                                                              ii.      International Building Code (IBC) b.       National Fire Protection Association (NFPA)                                                                i.      NFPA 101                                                              ii.      NFPA 5000 c.       Accessibility                                                                i.      ANSI-A117.1 Accessible and Usable Buildings and Facilities                                                              ii.      Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA)                                                            iii.      Architectural Barriers Act (ABA) d.       Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) 2.       The Ladder Effect 3.       Code requirements and definitions: a.       Handrail                                                                i.      Definition                                                              ii.      Height requirements                                                            iii.      Size limitations                                                            iv.      Clearance b.       Guard                                                                i.      Definition                                                              ii.      Height requirements                                                            iii.      Opening limitations c.       Barrier                                                                i.      Definitions d.       Structural Requirements If I have missed something, please let me know.   Tony    
by Todd Daniel
Tuesday, July 19, 2016
Business Skills v. Trade Competency from Doug Bracken 0 Todd Daniel I see certification/accreditation can be approached from two distinctly different angles: 1.       Business Competency 2.       Trade Competency 3.      A combination of 1 and 2. NOMMA’s core members are mostly tradesmen/women first and business people second so when you ask a tradesman how to create a certification program, the answers will certainly lean towards how to weld, instead of how to run a business.  I feel strongly that NOMMA can do the most good for the least effort by focusing entirely on Business Competency and allowing the individual businesses to demonstrate their own Trade Competency to their clients. Trade Competency changes daily  we learn everyday from our successes and mistakes, therefore, trying to benchmark that knowledge will only lead to frustration and animosity over even a short period of time.   Certification will be a tool for the Fabricator Member to use to differentiate his/her business from non-accredited or certified firms doing similar work much like a trade specific BBB stamp of approval. Therefore the persons who will recognize certification for our benefit will be homeowners, contractors, architects, landscape architects. In this manner, certification is a way for the client or client prospect  to know that they are doing business with a reputable business (which is at least half the battle of hiring a competent contractor in any field), which is allied with a national trade organization. Whether that shop builds fire stairs, monumental stairs, railings or fences, gates or lights, structural or misc. or all or just one of those, the NOMMA brand is here to say with basic business competency certification that the firms which qualify are reputable and responsible businesses whatever they are doing. In other words,  the NOMMA certified business understands the risk and responsibilities of their business activities which is a huge advantage for the consumer.   Therefore, the first level and the most important level of accreditation needs to focus on the business ; Have you been in business for more than (___3?__) years performing the same type of work, do you carry insurance appropriate for your business, have you been bankrupt, are you bondable, what is your Work Comp Insurance Modifier, do you have a safety program in place for shop and field workers, have you ever been sued for non-performance, do you have relationship with a Professional Engineer, what is your business credit score or D+B rating, Can you offer professional and trade references, what is the average size job for the last 3 years, what are your trade specialties or specialized tooling, how many years have you been a member in good standing with NOMMA,  etc etc.??   Quantifying the trade competency as I see in some of the lines below, is very risky, very subjective and does not  appeal to the target market of architects and builders etc. For example, I know a guy who makes the most beautiful French scrolls with a cutting torch and a welder and I know another guy who produces similar work with a waterjet machine and a welder and we can make a similar product with hammer and anvil. How do you create a trade competency evaluation that addresses all three conditions equally? Worse still – imagine we failed the gate construction test and then lost a job because of it, then I studied my failure but and the next exam was months away so now I am not sure if I should  bid on gates or not or maybe the specter of failure follows my business? How about a certification where the gate builder was certified but the gate failed and hurt someone, now how is NOMMA liable for the injury since we certified the firms abilities in these areas? Trade competency is best left for the client to decide. NOMMA can assist him/her with the credentials that support that they have basic business knowledge and risk management through certification.   The catch is that there will need to be some way for customers to file complaints, like the BBB, to NOMMA if a firm fails to perform or perhaps if they misrepresent themselves or their financial or insurance situation. This is why you will need an annual fee to manage the certification program. This would also be the case if we were to certify trade competency, except that the trade side is MUCH more subjective and more prone to miscommunication and upset as a result.   Respectfully Yours,   Doug Bracken   Utah Contractor Application -  http://dopl.utah.gov/apps/Contractor_App.pdf  All of the essential, basic, “do you understand what it means to operate a business” questions are listed here on this sample application form – this may be  more than enough to certify a firm for our purposes, if they can answer most of these questions in the positive. I am not sure an additional exam is needed.    PSI Testing Service   https://candidate.psiexams.com/index.jsp#   This is the firm that administers the exams and certifications for loads of associations including the State of Utah Contractor Lic exams. They are probably a good resource as well as DASMA    
by Todd Daniel
Monday, January 25, 2016
Meeting Minutes - June 13, 2015 0 Todd Daniel Fabricator-erector - both certifications. Fabricator - one or the other. Paint certification Charles Perez on committee. Modules - pick direction -  Railing module Forging Gate module recognize AWS certifications D1.1 AWS - 1.5 amos - brent nichols -gate automation - $200.  Gates, drawings - CD - $200 -  80% to pass gate operator study guide - 96 pages  outline galvanize, weld joints, glass, cable, guards,  breakdown - styles - pipe, cable, glass, breakdown by alloy -  organize by function - commercial vs. residential. Where going, type dwelling. railing interpretation guide -  building codes Base knowledge materials - NAAMM-NOMMA - basic knowledge scott - questions from study guide - thorough Basic add levels small resident guard, simplistic - certify smallest shop and build around that - red iron, level 5, everyone wants to take a part force expose to new ideas - expand business accreditation on truck basic certification - general pipe railing, picket, intermediate, expert - pick 5 to 10. scott - new guy starting out. adjust price for nonmembers test at METALfab - increase, or at chapter meetings increase revenue to our organization proctor BASIC 1-6 NOMMA booth - sign-up - fleshed out a lot more Allyn - general announcement.at business meeting James/Charles - two module. two materials - ferrous/non ferrous, material handling amos - sectiion 4 - naamm-nomma - mail manual to Amos brainstorming Allyn - knowledge of stair systems. section 3 - section 3 - railing and layout -  Joey Joe Romeo - insurance business operations and accounting - Todd, Tony Leto -  September share drafts -  swap - peer review - filtered organically September 1 or Dave - Dave Dursallo -  osha requirements - Dave Dursalleo -  charles/james - misc. Dave Durello - scott colson dave dursaello - 
by Todd Daniel
Friday, January 8, 2016
Platinum Level Idea From Leo 0 Todd Daniel From Leo:   One thought Amos had about the Platinum level certification: Double-blind review of a shop’s work. As part of the accreditation process, the shop submits 10-12 good photos. The file is then reviewed by someone (perhaps a committee of someones) who assess to ensure that the work being done is of platinum level, perhaps a rating scale, 1-100; 40 being the minimum for basic, and 50-60 being silver, 70-80 being gold and 90-100 being platinum. The photos and work would be evaluated for different areas: complexity, attention to detail, neatness of fabrication, consistency, finish quality, etc.  The scores in the categories would be added together and that would be the score for the shop. For instance if a shop scored 75, they could complete modules and testing required and become a silver, then gold shop, and even if they complete all the modules they couldn’t become platinum without being reevaluated.   Amos included his suggested costs: $395 for basic. $195 for each additional level, $880 for platinum. Hopefully we could keep the module cost lower (perhaps $50 including the study guide and 1 session of testing).
by Todd Daniel
Tuesday, September 15, 2015
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METALfab2018 NEF Education Program

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